The current stand-off between India and China mirrors a similar incident that happened almost 54 years ago. Not much was known about the India-China war of 1967, which was relegated to a few lines in history books and almost forgotten. Probal DasGupta, through his debut non-fiction, Watershed 1967: India’s Forgotten Victory over China, sheds light on this lesser-known, but immensely important Indian victory.
Probal DasGupta is a veteran of the Indian army. After taking premature retirement from the army, he studied at Columbia University in New York (USA) attaining a masters degree in International Affairs, after which he had an extremely successful career as a business consultant. He wrote articles on current affairs for several years, before authoring his debut novel, Watershed 1967: India’s Forgotten Victory Over China.
In a conversation with Ragini Puri, Probal shares his journey starting from childhood all the way to the present. He talks about how coming from a diverse background helped him while writing his novel and shares the key to creating good content. He demonstrates how the various roles he has played in his life continue to impact everything he does and allow him to offer a nuanced outlook on various issues.
Please tell us how your childhood or background impacted your career choices. Army, author and historian, business leader. This is a wide spectrum and must have a connection to your upbringing.
I went to a boarding school where I grew up with a focus on the all-round growth of the personality. I believe this helped me develop a multi-dimensional perspective on various issues. Being in a boarding school with various types of people of similar age, I learnt to be independent and make friends with people who were different from one another. Assuming different responsibilities in school, especially at an age which was about middle to higher secondary school, helped me develop a sense of accountability and responsibility early on. I was lucky to have a class teacher, Mr Ahmed Ansari, who prodded and encouraged me to step outside of the comfort zone – whether writing, debating or other co-curricular activities or sports. At an early age, such mentoring helps a child develop a sense of confidence, enthusiasm and adaptability.
My father served in the armed forces in the early part of his career, and then was a banker for most of his career. He was a big influence and encouraged me early on, to explore various ideas and encouraged a free spirit of thinking. He encouraged me to push boundaries: at that age, it helped imbibe a sense of fearlessness and self-belief. It helps build reserves of self-belief as you grow. I realise now how important self-belief and tenacity is in the long journey of life, where I have had to learn from various experiences – most importantly, failures and setbacks.
At home, there was a deep-seated focus on learning, be it academics, current affairs, literature, sports, etc. Reading was also a habit that was inculcated in me from a young age – from Dickens, Sarat Chandra, Maugham, Hemingway, Camus, Hesse and later Gabriel Garcia Marquez or Rushdie. I also watched a lot of movies growing up, be it Hollywood, Hindi, or Bengali. This is why I developed a liking towards various mediums, and I believe that is what helps me attempt to think outside the box, wherever I can. My home environment coupled with my boarding school upbringing prepared me to anticipate challenges in life, not be fazed by failures and to always be self-reliant.
What was your experience being a part of the Indian army, especially serving in areas of deep conflicts like Kashmir and North-East India? At that point, what was your opinion on the way the media reported or covered military action? Do you feel it has evolved for better or worse now?
When you are serving in conflict-ridden areas, you are simply doing your job as a serving officer in the Indian armed forces. When you pass out of the IMA, the Chetwodian code of ethics stays with you. So does the training, where integrity and leadership by example is a prime driver. One faces circumstances that are complex while operating in difficult areas but the training in the army and the ethical norms that are a part of the DNA help navigate complex situations. Ensuring a natural sense of justice is one of the operating rules that determine how one takes a decision.
Coming to your question, back in the 1990s when I was serving in uniform, social media was not prevalent. People were not occupied with consuming every little piece of media, as we do today, and this reduced the amount of noise around us. The presence of media and noise was not overwhelming so you could differentiate between what was true and what was fabricated.
If you ask me, the presence of social media and technology is a double-edged sword. While it informs people about what is going on in the world, can also divide them by spreading misinformation. Anyone can take to the social media and express their opinion which is why it is important for everyone to be aware of the actual situation at hand – and thus read extensively to be better informed. People must do their independent reading before forming an opinion given the fact that we have access to all sorts of opinions at our fingertips. I think somewhere we have compromised on our ability to process information into knowledge since we are constantly flooded with indistinguishable information across multiple platforms and agendas.
When did the idea for the book germinate in your mind?
Interestingly, the idea of the book germinated around the time of the Doklam crisis between India and China in 2017. I had already been writing several articles and strategic pieces in different newspapers, journals, etc. I realised that most of the references regarding India and China were from the 1962 conflict, which India had lost. Not much was written about a set of battles that happened 5 years after 1962 in Nathula and Chola, which India won. These battles actually changed the course of history between India and China.
When I bring up 1967 with people, whether in the army or outside of it, I realise that not many are aware of the events of that year. I say this quite emphatically, people hardly have any information or understanding of the events of 1967 because it was never narrated or told to them. That is quite baffling since this period changed the template of relations between India and China. After 1967, barring a skirmish in 1975, India and China had not had a conflict for over half a century, and you go back to 1967 as the watershed year. When I shared this idea with a bunch of publishers, they were quite keen, and Juggernaut Books was very excited to publish the story. I thank my publishers for believing in the idea of the story, whose time had come.
With the recent political climate in India, writing about war comes with its perils. Were you ever worried about exercising complete freedom of speech and opinion?
Writing about conflict has issues around disclosures and India is not a country that has well-defined norms of declassification. Hence, we hardly talk about our history or record it. We have chosen to keep things censored because there is deep-seated insecurity about the repercussions of information we may uncover. Therefore, when I set out to write my book, there was a dearth of official sources and that continues to remain the case. I had to rely a lot on existing pieces that had already been written about the battle in the form of articles, blogs, etc. I also looked up the newspapers of that time to get an idea of the way the events were being reported. I had to majorly bank on primary sources as I spoke to veterans who served in Nathula and Chola and they told me about their experience. These sources helped me create a narrative around the battle, despite a lack of official sources. I am grateful to all those who wrote about the battles and events or covered them in some form earlier and to the sources who recounted their experiences to me.
I tried to maintain a sense of neutrality in my narrative so as to preserve objectivity in reporting history. I consciously made an effort to be unbiased in the narrative and not propagate any particular side or ideology. For the most part, the reviews have told me I have managed to achieve this. I read one review calling it an independent and statesmanlike narrative and if that is how people have perceived it, I am satisfied with the credibility of the outcome.
You chose to cover a topic that people know very little about. Did you ever think that was a risky proposition?
It never felt risky because there was a lot of excitement regarding the project. So much has been written about India and China, yet this was an untold story. It was always an attractive proposition for those interested. After all, India and China are two very relevant regional powers, and their matters generate interest globally. Messaging is an important part of any story and the message here was a powerful one. This story had the ability to revive a lost true story and change the narrative to one where the last known victor in a dispute between India and China, was India. In fact, I believed the message to be so powerful that I thought one risk would be the narrative seeming slightly underwhelming where it left people yearning for more. I guess one great advantage I had was primary sources who had witnessed 1967 in person and had great memories from the time. This helped me piece together a narrative that had not been written before because primary sources give you a flavour that cannot be captured otherwise. Speaking with the sources, researching and travelling to gather information on the book helped generate pace and energy, which sustains the soul of writing a book. It helped that I had good research inputs from Mehr Gill, who worked diligently, and from Mangesh. It always helps to have your work read by others before going to print. The initial draft was also read by veterans and writers which helped iron out any chinks. Parth, my editor at Juggernaut, and his team were sharp which helped polish the flow.
Glowing reviews aside, did you receive or face any backlash from readers or even other historians? If yes, how did you deal with this?
Thank you so much! No, I did not receive a backlash. There can be opinions with a widely read book, such as someone saying a blog had been written earlier too about the battles. It is true that a blog or an article here or there had been written on the battles – which is where one gets information from secondary sources, and duly credits such information.
Blogs or articles are likely to be there about an incident or battles in the past, whereas a book, on the other hand, is about a period and the events that preceded and those that followed that era. It is a far deeper and evolved venture. Another thing is that when one writes about history, there can be differing opinions on the treatment of the subject. Some of the opinions have been helpful: such as the feedback I received to add a bit of information on the period or as a military historian suggested that I check on the aircraft mentioned in the section on Mizoram in the book. A well-known writer differed with me about an event on Vajpayee’s march with the sheep to the Chinese embassy in 1965 – which is mentioned in the book. Though he differed with me on that aspect of the story, it was generous of him to express his effusive liking for the book. Somebody suggested including more maps in the book. Such nuanced inputs are always refreshing. It helps me understand what could be improved creatively which adds to my contextual understanding and helps me to know what a reader looks for. So, I appreciate those inputs.
What I have, however, reiterated, on a higher scale is that it took more than fifty years to narrate the story of such magnitude and relevance, which should have been written earlier. There was a gap in history for so many years. Till now, not many knew about 1967. Today, they do. That is the bottom line.
Social media plays such an important part in advertising a book in today’s times. Tell us about how you used various platforms to reach out to your target audience. And which platform or format did you find the most effective for your book and why?
It has been a fascinating journey using social media. The interesting thing is that since the book launched just before COVID struck, we had to resort to using social media in an unexpectedly massive way to reach out to audiences. Since bookstores, think tanks, book clubs, educational institutions etc. were not viable options to host launches anymore, the use of social media became a lot more pronounced. Moreover, any form of physical discussion was highly unlikely, so we saw a rise in the importance of webinars, digital interviews, television debates, etc. It was a different experience using the entire depth of social media.
In so far as reaching out to an audience, it is always good to have an interaction whether it is in the form of a discussion about the book or an interview. Though these formats have smaller audiences, they have a very targeted audience. Given the nature of the subject of my book, I found this to be useful. During the early stages of the lockdown, it was a lot simpler to reach out to people. The real challenge began when things started opening up and we had to hold people’s attention. It definitely was a challenge, and it did teach me that social media when overdone, can get overwhelming and cannot completely replace the physical medium.
You are now recognised as a strategic expert on Indo-China relations, especially after the India-China skirmish at the border began. Tell us about the experience of being invited to prime-time news channels for your comments. Did it have a positive impact on your book sales?
I think what was interesting to see was that there was a renewed interest in the history that had been lost. That helped the sales very much but I cannot comment on the exact numbers. The book was a bestseller in the Asian Age Best Seller list and figured in the Hindustan Times Book of the Week and The Hindu’s Top Books to read on India-China and also in a Times of India list on recommended India-China books.
India China relations are covered by many academics, and I decided to take a historical angle to look at them. Hence, in most of my engagements, it was interesting to see the course the discussions took as a contemporary issue was being discussed through a historical prism. Secondly, apart from being a historian, I have also written about current geopolitical and geoeconomic issues. I think I was able to weave the past with the present and give a perspective which was perhaps slightly different.
How has your diverse background as a global business adviser, writer for leading journals around the world and a guest lecturer at an Ivy League institution impacted your bearings as an author or historian? Has it helped in the way you choose to disseminate knowledge?
Two things I have always valued is the element of listening and the element of taking feedback. In a world of extravagant social media interaction, everybody has an opinion. This is why I like to use these platforms to listen to what people have to say and what their feedback is, and this is not limited to my book. It helps me understand audiences better and be exposed to various perspectives. Moreover, presenting in front of various audiences has allowed me to develop a versatile understanding of how different audiences consume information. It has also helped me learn to listen to different opinions. Reading across different genres, speaking with different audiences and interacting on varied platforms helps cross-pollinate knowledge, build context and purpose. To put it simply, neither of these roles above exist in isolation. They have an overlapping presence in my life, and I believe it is this intersection which allows me to have a versatile outlook. I feel that collectively, they make me who I am.
Has this varied background also helped you create better and more relevant content over the years? Creating impactful content is your primary job, but it can be overwhelming and submerge you sometimes. How do you manage to keep it pertinent?
As an author, one writes if there is something meaningful one has to say. One writes to convey a message that one deeply or passionately feels about. Though my background certainly helps me understand my audiences and readers better, the thought has to be mine as an author. The thinking has to be independent and reflect the author’s beliefs. Of course, interaction with different types of people helps you grow as an individual and expand your worldview. However, without an original idea, none of this is too useful. Ideas could be outcomes of conversations, planned outcomes, or even accidental outcomes. However, at the core of great content, is the author’s desire to express something meaningful. A distinct voice, to me, is the soul of any work of art.
What are you looking at doing next? Is there another book in mind or are you still completely immersed in Watershed 1967?
The story of Watershed 1967 is bigger than the book. It is, therefore, a continuing one as I have been speaking at various forums discussing the book. It is a story that more and more people need to know and that means that journey will continue outside of the book. Besides, given the interest in Indo-China relations, the book is fairly relevant and suited to contemporary times. Other than this, I am thinking about writing another book. Once again, I want to choose a subject where I have something to say and where I can tell a story. Carmine Gallo says that our brains are hardwired for storytelling. Stories help us understand better not just what the past was but also why the past matters. As someone said: we are all stories in the end. It is an idea which is still in the works and I am hoping to execute it next year. It is another story which people would not have heard a lot about, and so I am hoping it will be an interesting journey of writing.
Our Takeaways from The Interview
Curious about the forgotten India-China of 1967? Read Watershed1967: India’s Forgotten Victory over China to know more. For more nuggets of knowledge join Probal DasGupta @iprobal or visit him on probaldasgupta.com!